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We Are NOT Progressives, We ARE Biblical

Joshua Brandt was primarily raised by his mother and grandma. He and his wife, Laura, are raising three girls and a sheltie named Charlea (who is also a girl). When he steps into the offices of The Gathering he is surrounded by women leaders who are advancing the the Kingdom. His church is full of sons and daughters of God who are working together to impact Muncie and the surrounding area. He is a better leader, a better person, because of all the women leaders in his life.

We are not progressives.

A while back I received an email from one of my friends. She was concerned about a church she was checking out online. This church made it very clear that they did not support women in leadership, especially as pastors. She could not believe it. She asked, “Don’t they know it is 2016?”

A four-year-old from our church was recently told by a preschool classmate that she could never be a pastor because she is a girl. We can almost hear someone ask, “Isn’t it 2016?”

A few weeks ago my social media feeds were full of the joy-filled faces of recent Anderson University School of Theology graduates. Many of the women who have proudly completed their degree know that the real work is just beginning. I hear myself asking, “I thought this was 2016?”

The question is understandable. We look around at all of the issues facing the church. We see all of the consistent change happening in our culture. We fall on our knees wondering how God will use this season in our country. We know that the world is different. It seems to some that women in leadership is just one more rallying cry for change.

It is not. 

I have been called many things over the years- a maverick (Thank you Doug Talley… I think?!?), “cutting-edge,” and an outsider. I take joy in my ability to see trends and respond to them. I desire to be a person who is open to bringing about transformation in the lives of people and the church. However, I want you to know that being a supporter of women in leadership is one of my most conservative values. 

When it comes to women in leadership, we are not progressives. We are taking a radically conservative stand.

The cry being heard from an increasing number of men and women in our tribe, in our movement, is not a demand for change. It is a call to remember. Yes, it is a call to remember who we are. To remember that our tribe has been calling women into leadership over and over again for over thirteen decades. It is perhaps too easy to say this discussion is closed. The experiential evidence abounds.

I think that argument can be too modern, too contemporary. Instead our radical commitment to women in leadership is directly tied to our commitment to the truth Scripture. I understand that there is, and perhaps always will be, discussion over “problem passages” in the New Testament regarding women in leadership. We must ask ourselves what advantage is there in advocating for a view of those passages which would limit women in leadership or remove them all together? I see no advantage for women.

I am committed to women and men leading the church because I believe it is the holistic witness of Scripture. Not because it is progressive. I take this stand because it is Biblical.

Perhaps it is time to take this discussion more personally. To sit in coffee shops and tell our stories to each other. To search Scripture together. It is worth the effort to hear and value one another. Why? Our ability to powerfully spread the Gospel is at stake.

I would love to sit and talk this through with you. Perhaps you have felt alone in your conviction about women in ministry. Give me a call. Let’s talk it through. Maybe you have been “supportive” but have not yet taken action. I would love to hear from you. And you might just be convinced that I am wrong. I look forward to hearing from you. Maybe we can help each other be better.

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Women in Partnership in Ministry

This is part 3 in a series of articles on leadership (specifically women in leadership) written by Joshua Brandt, Lead Pastor of The Gathering in Muncie, IN, and Stephanie Collins, Next Generation Pastor of The Gathering. As they share their ministry stories, you can’t help but notice the contrast. I so appreciate Stephanie’s willingness to be open, transparent, and vulnerable about her journey. And I am so thankful that she is at one of our Indiana congregations because she brings an incredible heart for ministry, sound training, and empowered gifts. Stephanie’s story reminds us that we still have work to do in our tribe in order to fully embrace God’s leadership gifts. Thank you, Stephanie.

Women in Partnership in Ministry

by Joshua Brandt

As a matter of fact, the prevalence of women preachers is a fair measure of the spirituality of a church, country, or age. As the church grows more apostolic and more deeply spiritual, women preachers and workers abound in the church…” C.E. Brown

It is interesting how perspectives can be so different. Our journey molds who we are and how we see the world. When we choose to see things through the eyes of another, we can begin to broaden our horizons. In this article, Joshua Brandt and Stephanie Collins share their own experiences and journeys with the issue of women in ministry.

Joshua
I was called into ministry when I was in 9th grade. In the calm of an open field during a time of prayer at a youth camp, God clearly called me to ministry. I have wrestled with that call over the last 25 years and it has matured along the way. As I told people at my church, and my family, I was encouraged, prayed for, and celebrated.

Stephanie
I accepted a call to ministry in 2008, at an International Youth Convention in San Antonio. I too was affirmed by my family, however I remember the shock and disbelief I felt at nineteen years old when my father, who is a Church of God pastor, said to me, “Ministry won’t be easy for you, Stephanie. The road isn’t easy for a woman in ministry.” As most nineteen year olds do, I kind of scoffed on the inside and thought that I knew better than my dad. I reasoned, “But this is the Church of God! We affirm women in ministry! Women have a place here!” Little did I know that my father was preparing me for the hard journey I would walk through for the next seven years.

Joshua
I became a youth pastor while I was still in college. At 19 years old, I was responsible for the discipleship and safety of a group of youth in a small church. I made so many mistakes in those years- trying to rent vans when I wasn’t old enough, thinking flashlight tag could be played every week, ordering enough pizzas for 150 kids when only 40 showed up. In each and every circumstance I was shown grace and encouraged to be better.

Stephanie
After receiving so much encouragement for ministry in the first few years of my calling, to my surprise, when I graduated with my bachelor’s degree, I could not find a church to serve. I sent

out resume after resume, looking for someone to take me in, give me a chance, and nurture me for the work of the Kingdom. I found no one. For the first time in my young life, the future began looking bleak for me. I was applying to the same churches that my male classmates were and they were getting hired, while I couldn’t even get an interview. My father’s words began ringing in my head… “Ministry won’t be easy for you, Stephanie. The road isn’t easy for a woman in ministry.” Would this be my life? Would this be how my story would read? I couldn’t help but feel defeated and uncertain of what the future would hold.

Joshua
I entered Anderson University School of Theology for the first time in the fall of 1999. I have gone off and on over the years (I have just one more class to go!). The joke is if you have been to SOT in the last 15 years we probably had class together. One of my first classmates is now even a professor! SOT was a great way for me to be discipled and to find respite. As the churches I served changed, SOT allowed me the space to dream and think differently.

Stephanie
After being unable to find a position at a church, I decided to enroll in seminary. At Anderson University School of Theology, I again felt affirmed and supported by all of my professors. They gave me the confidence I needed to again step out into the church world and pray that a position would open for me. Upon graduating I did just that. I stepped out in faith, seeking a church to take me in and give me a chance. Once again I found no one. One day, when the weight of another church rejection was upon me, this time solely because of my gender, I wrote these words in my prayer journal, “God, I don’t understand. Did I hear from you wrong? Am I not really called to do this? Haven’t I been faithful to you? Haven’t I studied and worked and walked through every opportunity you’ve given me? Why am I not good enough? Why am I unworthy? I’m so tired. I’m so weary. I want to give up.”

Joshua
Last year The Gathering was looking for our NextGen Pastor. New families were coming and we knew we needed to take our children & youth ministries to the next level. I had many conversations with potential candidates and read through countless resumes. Something was missing. We needed someone who could grow into our ethos. Someone who was clearly called to church leadership. Someone who could be a vital part of our team. I was getting frustrated that we couldn’t find who we were looking for.

Stephanie
Nine months after graduating seminary, I heard back from a church I had expressed interest in. They wanted to meet me for an interview. As I walked in the little diner where I was meeting the Pastor, Joshua Brandt, and Worship Pastor, Leo Flores, I was so tired and weary and truthfully didn’t expect anything good to come of this meeting. Rejection had become part of my identity. Inwardly, I had picked up this sense of rejection and shame and made it part of who I was, just as much as I had brown hair and blue eyes. Within an hour of meeting with Joshua, I sensed something different. I could tell he believed in women in ministry and leadership, possibly even more than I did!

Joshua
It is funny how conversations turn. When Leo and I met Stephanie that first time, it was clear that weariness was taking over. I wish I could tell you that The Gathering and I hired Stephanie because we are champions of women in ministry. I want you to know that we asked the best person we could find to join our team. Isn’t that the goal? We are all about accomplishing our mission and with Stephanie on our team we are so much better prepared to do that. My prayer is that in the Church of God, leaders, elders, and churches would fully embrace what Scripture tells us about leadership.

Stephanie
I’ve been at The Gathering for exactly a year now. It has been one of the greatest years of my life. I am finally getting to do what I was called all those years ago to do, what I have been equipped to do, and what I am gifted to do. Without a church like The Gathering and without a pastor like Joshua, I can’t help but think I would still be floundering somewhere in feelings of discouragement, worthlessness, and depression. Those are the feelings I was facing on a daily basis as I was stuck in a place of not being able to do what I believed God had created me to do.

What would happen if every church in Indiana decided to live out Paul’s words in Galatians
3?: There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Our Boards would be stronger as a mix of perspectives guided the conversations. Our teaching teams, paid and volunteer, would bring deeper wisdom in Scripture to light. Our children would have the advantage of seeing a counter-cultural church where women and men lead in their calling and gifting. The Church of God has always been counter-cultural and challenged the status quo. It is our prayer that we would begin doing this again with women in ministry.

Published: March 24, 2016

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Women in Leadership

This article is the first in a series about women in leadership that is intended to help us take proactive steps in practicing our theology more faithfully.

Women in Leadership

by Doug Talley

I remember the gender wars of elementary school. As kids looking for validation of our worth, we guys would declare that we were the superior gender and, of course, the girlswould make the same claim. We’d argue back and forth, but I don’t remember anyone ever winning. The arguments led to tension but not to resolution. By the time we got into middle school or high school, we readily abandoned those arguments. But thatdoesn’t mean that gender bias went away.

As I work with congregations who are searching for a pastor, I find that gender bias isstill alive and well… unfortunately. I don’t generally get pushback on the idea of women being a church board member (I sometimes wonder if that is due to need to fill a board slot with a warm body rather than an actual embracing of women in leadership.), but I do regularly encounter people who have a problem with a female pastor – especially if that person is going to be their female lead pastor.

This isn’t just a male gender bias. I usually get as much reservation from women asmen, and the resistance isn’t necessarily age related. In a day where women are CEOsof successful corporations and are in various other leadership capacities, the resistance strikes me as peculiar and either uninformed or a bit naïve. What does gender have todo with a person’s ability to lead or be used by God to make a Kingdom difference?

In the patriarchal culture of the Bible, women led and led effectively – and with God’s calland blessing. The Scriptures, both Old and New Testaments, are replete with stories of women in leadership. Miriam was part of the leadership team (with Moses and Aaron) that led the Hebrews out of Egyptian bondage. Deborah was a female judge (someone serving as leader and prophet before Israel had its first king) who led a successful counterattack against the forces of an enemy nation. Esther provided key leadership in preventing the genocide of the Jewish people back in the day of King Xerxes. Priscilla teamed with her husband to provide valuable leadership to Christ followers and congregations. There are scores of other women referenced in the Scriptures. In addition many women in the Church of God heritage have and are providing valuable, God-inspired leadership at various levels – including lead pastor.

In our tribe (Church of God), women in leadership and ministry have been part of our earliest history and practice. Women and men were captured by the vision of living a holy life, being one with all Christians and actively spreading the Gospel message. Our heritage is loaded with women who were very effective in preaching, leading, and other areas of ministry.

I am thankful to have a church heritage that affirms and values women in ministry, women in leadership, and female pastors. Yet, I have been embarrassed that this affirmation is often times more in theory or history than current practice. As I work with congregations across Indiana, I find that some have imported a bias against women in leadership from other tribes. I hear search teams say they are not open to a female pastor. While we have a history of valuing women in leadership, women often find it very difficult to be placed in a ministry position as a pastor, especially lead pastor. We have got to get our act together by addressing belief and placement inconsistencies.

I have to confess that I’ve been passive in both confronting and trying to change theresistance. I’ve worked with a number of women leaders who made gender a non-issue because of their spirit, capability and skill. I’ve naively thought that over time people would notice that the call to leadership and ministry is not gender based. But, alas, I realize I had my head in the sand. It appears that for some it is about gender. And examples of capable women do not sway their thinking. I cannot support that perspective.

I’ve repented of my mistaken assumption that people seeing capable women in leadership will erase their bias against women in leadership. (My conclusion is there are plenty of examples of God-anointed women leaders but the bias continues.) I’ve also repented of my passive position of letting people oppose women in leadership because of their personal preference or prejudice. It is time to call that what it is –sinful. It is a symptom of gender prejudice and is not rooted in Scripture or biblical truth.Like any sin, it needs to break our hearts, be confessed, repented of, and turned from. And then we must behave differently.

I need to apologize to my sisters in Christ for not more actively supporting their calling to leadership and ministry. Sisters, please hear that I’ve never doubted your calling orleadership. I’ve just not been willing or seen the need to champion the equality of gifting regardless of gender. As a result, I have been part of the problem. Please forgive me.

If there is truly “no male or female” (Galatians 3:28) in the Kingdom, then gender isneither a condition for entering God’s Kingdom nor providing leadership in God’s service. We’ve historically prided ourselves for believing in women in leadership and ministry. It is time we embrace it with our hearts and practice it. To get there, we need to begin with a broken and contrite heart for falling short… way short. Will you repent with me?

If so, what proactive steps will you take to support women who are called and equipped to serve a local congregation, the church at large, and the Kingdom? Email me and let me know.

Blessings, Doug Talley

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